We kick off season four of our Cool Schools series with Christian Dallavis, the Assistant Superintendent for the Partnership Schools, that started in New York and has since expanded to Ohio.
Mike McShane: Hello, and welcome back to another edition of EdChoice Chats and particularly to episode one of season four of Cool Schools. Cool Schools listeners that have been here since the beginning, basically every school year I have set out… And this is the Director of National Research at EdChoice, Mike McShane for those of you who the dulcet tones of my voice are unfamiliar. I have set out to interview interesting entrepreneurial educators from across the country and talk to them about their cool schools.
I have looked at public schools, at private schools, at urban schools, at rural schools, at big schools, at small schools spread all across this great nation of ours and done my best to try and tease out some interesting lessons that these folks have learned and ask them questions that potentially they haven’t been asked before in any sort of public way to try and understand how their schools work and what we can all learn from them.
I’m super excited to share season four with you. I’m going to be talking to some super interesting people. And obviously we’re going to spend a lot of time talking about the pandemic. We were kind of in the pandemic during the last season of these schools. Now, the schools have had a little bit of breathing room, a little bit of time to think about it. Many of them are in the process, they are gearing up for, or as this sort of season goes on, they will be starting up the 2021-22 school year.
And so I think they’re going to have some interesting reflections, both kind of looking backwards on the pandemic, but also looking at the present and looking at the future. Lessons that they learned from the pandemic, good things that came out of a terrible situation, and what we can take away from that. And then maybe some bad things that the pandemic woke them up to that they’ve decided to jettison.
So I’m looking forward to sharing these. I don’t want to like give away because some of these folks I’m still talking to, but they’re going to be cool. They’re going to be maybe some schools that you’ve heard of, some schools that you’ve never heard of. Maybe some schools that you’ve heard about if you’re kind of an education nerd and you listen to other podcasts. Maybe you’ve heard some interviews with these folks, and I bet you some folks that you didn’t even know existed, but will be cool nonetheless.
We are opening the season with actually an old friend of mine. Christian Dallavis is the Assistant Superintendent for the Partnership Schools. And now if Partnership Schools sound familiar, those of you that are in the sort of deep album cuts of cool schools will remember that we interviewed Kathleen Porter-Magee a few years ago. She is the overall superintendent of the Partnership School. She’s based in New York City. If you remember that story, this wonderful group of people took over a group of Catholic schools, sort of formerly struggling Catholic schools in New York City and really turned them around and have invested in the community. She told us great stories and lessons that she learned.
Well, the Partnership Schools expanded to Cleveland, Ohio working with two schools there, Archbishop Lyke and St. Thomas Aquinas. And Christian, who I know through the Alliance for Catholic Education at Notre Dame, where he was ensconced for, I think a decade or more, is sort of overseeing the operation there. So we have this wonderful opportunity to talk about what they are doing in Cleveland, to talk about kind of Catholic education in general, to talk about the pandemic and its impact on Catholic schools, on schools that serve low income students. Have really a great opportunity to kind of talk with an old friend about the great stuff that he’s doing right now. So without further ado, this is my conversation with Christian Dallavis, Assistant Superintendent for the Partnership Schools in Cleveland, Ohio.
Well, Christian Dallavis, welcome to the Cool Schools podcast. We had a fellow Partnership Schools person, Kathleen Porter-Magee on here. I think it was in season one. I probably should have checked that before we had our conversation, but talking about the great stuff that’s happening in New York City. But you are in Cleveland, Ohio continuing some great work that started there. So maybe if you could just give us a little bit of overview about the Partnership Schools, like how they got started in New York and then how you made your way to Cleveland.
Christian Dallavis: Sure. Thanks Mike. Thanks for having me. So the Partnership Schools have been operating as a school management organization in New York City since 2013. The archdiocese in New York turned over, first, six Catholic schools in Harlem and the South Bronx to the Partnership in 2013, giving the partnership and responsibility to operate the schools, take responsibility for the academics, the school leadership, finances fundraising. And then two years ago turned over a seventh school, St. Charles Borromeo, in Harlem to the Partnership. And as the Partnership has implemented its curriculum program and extended day, a focus on instructional excellence, providing a ton of professional development to teachers using our Partner’s Teach Like a Champion, and a whole suite of back office support more around executive management, operational vitality, providing scholarship support to all the students in our schools, we’ve seen really tremendous academic growth in our students.
17% of our kids were scoring proficient on the New York state test the first year Partnership took over. The most recent state test, that was in math. Most recently it’s gone from 17% to 52%. And in language arts, it’s gone from 22 to 48. So over time, you see those kinds of academic gains, which are kind of unheard of, and you see a lot of other dioceses and schools kind of clamoring for expansion and wanting to see that in their diocese.
The Partnership is certainly looking to be part of a national movement to help make the case for this approach to Catholic education and to demonstrate what’s possible in other places as well. After looking at different dioceses for kind of indicators of what we feel like is necessary to make this work, Cleveland really stood out as a place where we felt like we could demonstrate what’s possible with the diocese that has schools that had the kinds of needs that we felt like we could fill in a lot of support on the ground.
So we started last July taking on two schools in the diocese of Cleveland and did not anticipate that we would be taking on schools in the middle of a pandemic, but it has worked out pretty well. We’ve gotten off to a good start with really strong enrollment gains and a really strong start to shift the mindset and culture and laying the foundation for academic gains.
Mike McShane: Yeah. So can you talk a little bit about those two schools? Like what’s their history?
Christian Dallavis: So one is called St. Thomas Aquinas. It was founded in 1899. It’s on the east side of Cleveland. It is an all African American school that almost all of the students receive state scholarships with something called the Cleveland voucher program. And actually the diocese announced in January of 2020 that the school was going to be closed at the end of the year because enrollment had dropped over the previous five years by about 40%. The diocese looked at the demographics community and felt like it wasn’t sustainable, and for financial reasons and enrollment reasons weren’t able to sustain it.
The other is Archbishop Lyke which is an interesting case. It’s one of these schools that you see consolidations as a strategy for keeping schools open and trying to continue to serve a community when a particular school viability is in question. Archbishop Lyke is the product of school consolidations stretching back 50 years, and it is the last school standing of, over time, 10 different schools. So originally three schools closed, consolidated in 1970 and then more schools were kind of added to this cluster over the years. Nine other schools have ultimately closed and Archbishop Lyke is the last one standing after 50 years of consolidations.
It too had seen almost a 50% decline in student enrollment over the last five years. So we took Archbishop Lyke on last year, but since then we’ve seen enrollment gains of 30% in Archbishop Lyke, and almost 50% at St. Thomas Aquinas.
Mike McShane: So now what is it that you all do? What makes these schools sort of different for your involvement in them as opposed to what they were doing before?
Christian Dallavis: Right. There’s a couple of things. One, we focus on creating a strong, intentional, positive Catholic school culture that’s rooted in what we believe and ensures that everything we do is a reflection of what we believe. We started that our first day when we met with the teachers at the beginning of the year last year. So that everybody in the building knows from the kindergarten students through the parents and all the teachers, that everybody here believes a certain set of things. And the teachers determine these together at the beginning of the year with the principals.
These would include things like we believe that we’re better together. We believe that we’re made in the image and likeness of God. We believe that we’re made for each other. We believe that we can do hard things. We believe that we’re made for greatness. And all of the policies, procedures, programs, rituals, routines, decisions that anyone makes in the school are informed by those beliefs and can be traced back to them.
So if a student gets in trouble, or if a student doesn’t meet behavior expectations, the way the teacher responds to that is informed by the teacher’s belief that that student is made for greatness. So we don’t knee-jerk suspend or expel a student for an infraction. Whereas in the past it might’ve been you look at the handbook and see, okay, that’s worthy of a suspension. Instead we look at the individual case and we treat every student like they’re made for greatness. We believe that, because we are really gospel driven. We believe that we’re prodigal son people. You go after the one sheep and bring them back. We really believe in opportunities for healing and growth so we really take that stuff seriously. And our principals have really done a dynamite job of really building a culture that is focused on those things we believe and helping teachers even in the most difficult moments.
You and I have both been teachers and you’ve been in those moments where kids are just really testing your limits. To remember in those moments that this child has made for greatness, that can be hard sometimes. To keep that front of mind, it takes a real culture shift, and so we’re really focused on that.
The other kind of more concrete things that we bring to the table are we’ve implemented like a content-driven knowledge-based curriculum across the board. So we’ve implemented a new language arts and math curriculum. We believe that the thing that drives student results is good teaching and more of it. So we’ve lengthened the school days. Kids are in school until four o’clock, and that’s because we want to ensure that kids get plenty of minutes for strong instruction in math and language arts, but that they don’t get anything taken away.
So we still have full time for PE and music and art and religion. We have two recesses every day, and a lunch period. You know, you can kind of double down on math and language arts. I’ve seen a lot of schools double down on math and language arts, and they do that by taking away those other courses. But we don’t want to do that so we add time to the day. We also increase our teacher salaries by 15% to compensate them for that work that they’re putting in.
We invest in the buildings. A lot of Catholic schools, especially in urban areas have been the subject of decades of deferred maintenance, and we think that our kids need to have top-flight facilities. So last summer in Cleveland, we put a lot into basic things like stripping and waxing floors, painting things, putting in new whiteboards, putting in new projectors and screens. And this summer we’re putting in all new furniture, getting new desks and chairs and lockers and new classroom doors. Just real concrete but visible signs of refurbishing and refreshing the facilities.
So there’s a number of things that go into the curriculum and instruction. We also provide a ton of professional development. So it’s that good teaching and more of it. We really focus on helping our teachers get better. We;ve partnered with Teach Like a Champion since our inception. They were one of our first partners and they provide ongoing professional development onsite and remotely for us, which is just enormously helpful. They are some of the strongest adult learning providers that I’ve ever encountered.
Mike McShane: And so now when you get involved with the school, do you work with the existing staff, the existing teachers? Do you hire new teachers? Is it some mix?
Christian Dallavis: Yeah, we work with the folks who were there. Our mission is to work with schools that exist and not to start new schools that’ll run an old school out of business. We don’t go in and have everybody reapply for their jobs or something like that. We believe in the power of existing Catholic parochial schools, and we believe that Catholic schools typically are anchors in their community. I think of them as sources of community capital and social capital in their communities.
And so what we do is we work with the teachers who are there, and the principals who were there, and provide as much support and training as we can to support them and their journey to be great educators. A lot of them are super enthusiastic right off the bat to try something new, because they know. Like at St Thomas Aquinas last year, they were closed. They were told they were closing. They were told they have to find new jobs. They brought in other schools to recruit their kids. And then the diocese, when it became clear that we would be able to work out a deal with the diocese to come in, they decided to keep it open.
But they know that things aren’t working out well. And we know that over the last 20 years, 3011 Catholic schools have closed in the United States. That’s about 35, 40% of all Catholic schools in America. We have to do something differently if we’re not going to lose another 3000 Catholic schools in the next 20 years.
Mike McShane: And so you mentioned you’ve seen this really strong enrollment growth, but I mean, you haven’t been involved that long. So I’m curious what you think is driving that enrollment growth. Is it excitement about something new and different? Is it the Partnership brand? Because I mean, I don’t know if you’ve had time yet to say, “Here, look at what this school is doing now. Look at our scores. Look at the increasing,” et cetera. Is it the brand? What do you think is driving those enrollment gains?
Christian Dallavis: I think it’s a couple of things. I think part of it was that we were in school in-person from the first day. We had parents calling us. Literally I had parents calling in the morning saying, “Hey, I was just driving by on Superior Avenue and I saw kids outside. Are you doing in-person learning because I want that for my kid.” So that was just awesome, because there were so many schools that just weren’t doing that, and parents really wanted their kids in school last fall. And so that was part of it.
That wasn’t the only part of it. I think there are a lot of parents that really want a faith-based education for their kids. Almost all of our students are not Catholic, but having a faith-based education is really important to their parents. And then I think there was something about the commitment to improving the school.
I think parents saw the work trucks doing some construction last summer. I think there’s something too. I think parents are attracted to the idea of the extended day and the commitment to more learning. I think parents are attracted to the commitment, the idea that when the school was closed, they felt like this is it. And I think prior to that, the sense was always like, “Okay, maybe we can get one more year, one more year, one more year.” But when the diocese and the Partnership sign this agreement, it’s kind of like, okay, this is here for a while. Like we’re not going anywhere. And that sense of long-term permanence and an upward trajectory, I think the words started to spread in the community. We were getting lots of word of mouth referrals from families last late summer, early fall that I think really drove a lot of it. And I think that was really the driving force.
Mike McShane: Well, I’m interested you brought up the pandemic. I mean, it seems like at the outset of the pandemic folks would look at schools like the two that you’re involved with and say, “This isn’t going to work.” Right? The economic crash that takes place and huge unemployment spikes, et cetera. It’s like these schools are just not going to keep going. And yet the exact opposite happened. It sounds like a large part of that was because you were in-person when a lot of schools weren’t.
So I’m sort of interested in A, what do you think drove that, which was the in-person learning or if other things were going on?, But B I’m actually more kind of interested just like how you all did it. Like, how did you all manage the pandemic? How were you able to be open when other people were closed?
Christian Dallavis: Yeah. I should mentioned one other thing. So we also hired an enrollment coordinator. It’s one of the first things that we did. So we hired a woman named Portia Gadson who was the Assistant Principal at St. Thomas. Her kids went to St. Thomas. She herself actually went to the school that’s now at Archbishop Lyke, and she knows the community. She knows the parents. She lives right around the corner from Archbishop Lyke and she really like hit the ground and called parents.
When parents would inquire, she would call them back and they would be enrolled within minutes and she would have their friends’ phone numbers and their cousins’ numbers. So Portia was just tenacious about recruiting and she could sell it. Because she’s a mom of kids who went there. Right? And she went there herself. And so that was, I think, a big part of it is like having someone dedicated to that specifically, to recruiting, is a big part of it.
As far as how did we open? We just figured out what we needed to do to open safely. We made the decision early that we were going to open in person as quickly as we could, as soon as it was safe. And that was long before, that was probably in June of last year before we knew whether we would be able to or not. But we just decided that we were going to do it as soon as it was safe. So we looked into following all the guidance. We be built plexiglass barriers between desks, put these desks shields up, and committed to wearing masks and teaching kids and rehearsing with kids how to put masks on before they go into the building and how to wear them. And prepared teachers to remind kids frequently and rehearsed the lines and all the protocols.
And we also had to, as everybody did, come up with pretty complex protocols for when somebody got sick or appeared to be sick. That was the most complicated thing is when someone seemed to be sick, but you didn’t know if they were. How to make decisions about quarantining. But we wound up over the course of the year, we didn’t have any cases of transmission in the schools. We had a few people get sick, but we could trace all of those back to like a kid’s mom who worked at a nursing home or something like that. But nobody passed the virus in any of our schools. So the protocols and the procedures all seemed to work and kept everybody safe.
Mike McShane: Wow. Now you mentioned folks would be driving down the street and people were so interested in this in-person learning. Did that change the student population?
Christian Dallavis: It grew it enormously. And yeah, it did. So at St. Thomas, they went from 175 kids to 258. And so we did have a huge influx of students who had never been in a Catholic school before. And we had a first-year principal who really had to work hard at ensuring that the new students were oriented to the St. Thomas school culture, especially because a lot of them started after the first day of school too. So the teachers had a lot of first days of school over the course of like September and October.
But yeah, so we had a lot of kids who came in who were coming from a completely different kind of school culture, where they had different sets of expectations. So it was a challenge for teachers at times to really help kids to have a sense of what the expectations would be at St. Thomas. And they were also doing that while balancing. Kids had the option to learn from home, so we had a certain percentage of kids learning remotely. So teachers who are splitting their time between at-home learners and in-school learners.
So it was a real challenging year for our teachers, but I’d say largely very successful. All of those students are returning this year, about the same retention percentages we usually get, about 85%. So we’re pretty happy about that.
Mike McShane: Sure. Now you talked about making a lot of investments in the school buildings, paying teachers more, longer day. How does this work? How does the money work here?
Christian Dallavis: So we have a pretty substantial fundraising operation. I shouldn’t say operation, but we engage in some fundraising and we have some really generous supporters in Cleveland, and we’re really working hard to generate resources there. The kind of baseline education is largely supported by the state scholarship program, which we’re really grateful the governor just signed a bill that increases the amount each student gets from $4,650 to 5,500, which is helpful, really helpful. But we do have to raise a substantial portion to cover the full cost to educate.
We’re planning to increase our impact in Cleveland and grow to a couple of more schools. Our initial arrangement with then Bishop Perez, who has moved to Philadelphia, now the Archbishop of Philadelphia, and now Bishop Malesic is to serve in [inaudible 00:21:26], which we plan to be in over the next couple of years. And as we grow and realize some economies of scale our cost to educate will obviously go down and get closer to the amount that we get from the state, but we’ll always have some fundraising to do.
Mike McShane: Yeah. You mentioned school choice policies, so I’m legally obligated working for EdChoice that we have to talk about that. I’d be interested from your sort of practitioner perspective as someone who is involved in schools and participates in these, what is that like? Is the state easy to deal with when it comes to those funds? Is there administrative bureaucracy? Are there parts that obviously the funds are helpful? But I would just be interested in sort of your experience with these programs.
Christian Dallavis: Yeah. So we have students on four different kinds of state scholarships, the Cleveland Scholarship, the EdChoice, EdChoice expansion, and John Peterson scholarships for students with learning needs. They are relatively straightforward in kind of managing the scholarship process. I mean, there is the bureaucracy involved with it that we are getting better after a year of navigating it at figuring out how to navigate that bureaucracy and all the various online portals.
And there is a lot of paperwork that parents have to produce. But again, this is where Portia has been very helpful in figuring out how to streamline a lot of that, get a lot of it online and into a kind of streamlined system to ensure that we can get a parent, their scholarship application kind of materials captured as quickly and smoothly as possible. Because it can be kind of an onerous process, all the things that parents have to pull together to get their scholarship application up to the state and then approved.
There are a number of hoops that have to be jumped through, but it’s well worth it for the benefit. After having worked in states where there is no parental choice, it’s definitely well worth. It could be simpler, but it’s a great benefit.
Mike McShane: Well, I’m glad that you brought that up because I was going to ask. People who listen to this podcast, there are some policymakers, there are advocates. So from a school operator’s perspective, if you could talk to folks, you’re giving them advice of elements of programs that are helpful or some that are more, I don’t want to say harmful, but maybe just like more onerous or make your life more difficult without actually ensuring that dollars are better spent or whatever. Is there any advice that you would give to those folks to say, “Hey, this is something good to include, or this is something that’s probably not necessary”?
Christian Dallavis: I’m not sure how I’d answer that with this program. I used to direct the ACE Academies at Notre Dame, where I worked in Arizona and Florida and Indiana. And now I’ve worked with schools in New York as well where there’s no choice. The principals in New York are super jealous of the principals in Cleveland because it’s private scholarship funding there. Having a voucher over a tax credit from the principal’s perspective and school operator’s perspective in some ways is much easier. Not having to raise tax credit scholarship dollars is nice. We used to have to raise a lot of the tax credit scholarship dollars. And the eligibility for these scholarships is nice and simple.
When I was working in Arizona, I remember I showed Matt Ladner, this flowchart that I had to create with our scholarship coordinator, where it was kind of like you qualify for this tax credit scholarship if you are a foster child or the child of active duty military, or living on a Native American reservation. And then there’s another one if you are switching from a public school, or another one if you’re transferring in from out of state. Like it was so complicated that so many schools just didn’t even bother trying to move families through the process because they couldn’t figure out how to navigate it.
Whereas this is just nice and easy. Like you qualify for the Cleveland scholarship if you live in the city of Cleveland. Everybody qualifies. EdChoice is a little more complicated. You have to be zoned for a [inaudible 00:25:35] school or fall below a certain income threshold. But the state has basically like you put in your zip code and it tells you if you qualify. So the only downside of the Ohio ecosystem is the amount of the voucher, which at 4650 was not anywhere near what it takes to educate a student. 5,500 is a little better, but it’s still not what it takes to educate a student.
Mike McShane: No, that’s all super helpful. So as we’re kind of bringing this in to a close, a question I like to ask, and you have a lot of experience in a lot of different types of schools. But maybe just in this particular sort of path that you’re on right now, one of the things, because some people who listen to this podcast are other school operators, or they are people who are thinking about starting a school. They’re obviously drawn to innovation in education. You have now been working on this, and the pandemic happens, so hopefully idiosyncratic things that won’t be repeated again. But if you could go back as you were getting started in this and give yourself advice, like things that you know now that you wish you had known then, what advice you give yourself?
Christian Dallavis: I wish we could have found a way to get more of a sense of how things were going in classrooms and in the school despite the pandemic. Because we really feel like we lost. I know everybody’s talking about like learning loss. But we really feel like we did all this training with the teachers all via zoom. Then we started the year, and we were kind of keeping up. The principals were our eyes and ears. Right? But we really got to them via zoom too. And then once I started going in person, and really got a sense of like where things were, I guess I wish we had found ways to try to get a better sense of how things are going in those first six months or so, and try to find a way to be more, not even physically present, but just to maybe even like get to know the teachers personally, like one-on-one, despite the constraints of not being able to be physically present. We put, like I think everybody did, pretty strict restrictions on guests in the building because that was important to parents.
Mike McShane: Perfectly reasonable.
Christian Dallavis: Sure. But we included ourselves in that and we didn’t want to be vectors of the virus. And my state was one that in Indiana was at a very high. We were very high incidents of COVID and we weren’t allowed to travel into Ohio for a while. But yeah. So that’s one thing. I feel like we’ve got a lot of ground to make up in terms of like really building relationships, but also like doing teacher development.
I feel like we didn’t have a full year one. We had kind of a year 0.5 and we had it with like almost 50% more students, that were just kind of dropped into the building at the last minute. So I think things went well. But when I think about like, okay, well what could have gone better? And that’s not to say that the school needed me on the ground to do better. But I think that for us, as a partnership team, and that’s also like the partnership team is largely in New York and so they weren’t able to come to Ohio at all this year.
So I think that that’s one thing where the pandemic really constrained us in a significant way and that we really hope to bounce back from this year.
Mike McShane: Sure. Look, I know that we at EdChoice, I know just me personally in the various things that I did during the pandemic, yeah, anything that required building community was very, very difficult virtually. But if it was something where you just had to deliver content, like I had a book come out, so I gave book talks. That’s fine over zoom. Right? Because I’m just talking, people can type in their questions and it’s fine. But I do some teaching and various things. If it’s going to be a multi-day thing where you want to build up some camaraderie and be able to have a kind of great environment where people can ask questions, that’s super hard to virtually. So I mean, that strikes a chord with me of exactly what you’re trying to do.
And so I can’t imagine trying to sort of inculcate those values, that culture into a whole new group of students and having to do that virtually. So look, I’m glad you all were able to be in-person. Let’s hope that you’re able to stay that way and you can continue building this culture. I know we’ll be watching all of your progress and hope to see you spread to more schools and to keep the momentum going. So Christian Dallavis, thank you so much for joining the Cool Schools podcast.
Christian Dallavis: Thanks, Mike. It’s great to be cool with you.
Mike McShane: That was a great conversation. I hope you all enjoyed that. We spent a lot of time. You all aren’t able to see the video, but we were smiling and laughing with one another while that was going on. I think the lessons that they’ve learned in Cleveland, and particularly some of these things that I think is a theme that we’re going to see across a lot of different schools that we talk about, where especially private schools, private schools serving low-income students. There was that real thought at the outset that the pandemic was going to be the final nail in the coffin. That so many of these schools had survived through challenging circumstances before, but this was just like a cataclysmic event that they weren’t going to be able to get through.
And the opposite was true. It shows you, trying to predict the future, the folly that that is. So, as I said, I really enjoyed that. I hope folks that are interested in Catholic education, religious education, urban education, across a lot of different areas found that conversation useful. As I said at the beginning, this is just the first of several episodes that we’re going to be doing this season. They’re probably going to be coming out every couple of weeks. As I said, I’m excited about the folks that I’m talking to. I think you will be too.
So if you don’t already, and I don’t know if you’re listening to this podcast, how this could possibly be true. But if you are not already subscribed to EdChoice Chats where you get, not only this podcast, you get our monthly tracker podcast, you get our roundups of the goings-on in states. You hear my colleague, Jason Bedrick, who just like interviews interesting people in education. And I love the podcast that he does. I think he calls it Big Ideas, and they’re all great. He is able to get these interesting people. They talk, like if they’ve written a book. Anyway, it’s a great podcast. You can listen to it too. And the beauty is if you just subscribe to this podcast, you can get access to all of those.
Be sure to check out our website, www.edchoice.org. We’ve recently redone the website so it’s super user-friendly. You can see all the cool research stuff that we do. You can see just all of the great stuff that EdChoice is doing. Follow me on social media. I’m at Twitter, MQ_McShane. If you know of cool schools or any other topics related to school choice or education, please feel free to hit me up.
As always, I appreciate the time that we get to spend together, and I look forward to talking to you, not only in another episode of EdChoice Chats, but particularly another episode of Cool Schools. Take care, everybody.